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JRS: The Occasions ?
LR: Billy Carter, he sang the tenor. (Evans) Woodson, Johno (Johnnal Thompson – a female) and I can't think of the other girl's name, she was Woodson's wife (Jennifer Woodson -- all four were natives of Cleveland).
They had a great sound and Jim Brown liked them a lot (their 45 was on Big Jim and it hit big on Chicago radio station WMPP, being a Top 10 chart sound there in May 1967 ). He took their records, recordings
and production to MGM, that's how he got his big break with the Originals (Friends of Distinction ?). He was the only guy ( out of the entire management structure ) who brought money into Way Out. They all
bought new cars because of Jim Brown. We played his (football) retirement party with a 12 piece band. I was the band director and it was at the Cleveland Arena and featured Stevie Wonder and a bunch of Motown
acts.
JRS: So you ran the band for the whole show ?
LR: Most of them, the Motown acts had their own rhythm section. But all the rest of em, Bobby Wade and all those guys like that.
JRS: Bobby Wade had a release on Big Jim ("Flame In My Heart").
LR: Oh, yea. Thats how we got him started until he got to Black Prince (Deluxe !). We recorded him everywhere we could. On "Blind Over You" (a Deluxe 45) the backing vocals
were by Walter Williams, William Powell, Bobby Massey, Bobby himself and me. That was cut at Way Out. (Walter Williams and Bobby Massey wrote and produced the track). Bobby had become one of the favorite male singers then.
JRS: He was one of the top live acts around Cleveland ?
LR: Sure, he always had stage presence and was a consummate performer. He made his living from it, he didn't do anything else but sing, he had the top jobs. He would work at the Theatrical Grill, with
Mousy Wexler and all these big guys and make money. Mr Wexler was a big club owner in downtown Cleveland. Very high class, it was where all the real action was. Bobby would also sing at Sir Rahs House, the top
echelons. That clubs still there, used to be called Sir Rahs House……. Jimmy Landers and the All Stars play their today, David Peoples' lead singer in his band.
JRS: Now there was a Detroit record label called Sir Rahs.
LR: Sir Rah is actually Harris backwards. They were quite well to do financially so they backed the club, entertainers, etc. I don't know what his first name was, there was a family of em.
JRS: Cleveland Robinson, you say you met him a few times.
LR: Met him in Cleveland Recording studio and talked to him. He would always be down there, doing something. I liked his voice always, he was a quiet guy who kept himself to himself. By him being
older than us young hoods, coming up, making all this noise.
JRS: Yes, he's about 10 years older than you.
LR: Close to it.
JRS: Yes, he was telling me he only started recording around the same time as you, 1962.
LR: Well my first recording was1961, "Never Let Me Go / Party at Lester's" and then they
didn't release it till 62.
JRS: Were Cleveland's records popular around Cleveland.
LR: Almost everyone of them.
JRS: They got radio air play ?
LR: Anybody could get air play in Cleveland. Go in WJMO. Ken Hawkins, J L Wright and
several other people. JMO was the station that would make stars out of Cleveland people and give them a chance. Sort of like that station up in Detroit that played the Motown and Golden World
tracks.
JRS: Wasn't Eddie O'Jay based in Cleveland.
LR: Yes, he was working at (W)ABQ at that time. He was helpful to one of the local acts, the O'Jays, you know that !!!!!
JRS: So you were part of the house band at the Music Box from age 16 ?
LR: Yea, till about 23. That house band was called Lou Ragland and the Bandmasters and that's who I did my first recording as, we played behind Kim Tolliver. She was our female vocalist. At the time
you had a female in front of the band, she came out and did so many songs but we did the bulk of the work.
JRS: How did that fit in with the vocal group you were a member of in the early days ?
LR: The Sahibs, two of the guys, George Hendrix and……..after they broke up we all became musicians. The bass singer started playing bass. The vocal group had one guitarist who would never
show up. Because he never showed up, I started playing guitar. I couldn't play everything but I could play "Twist & Shout", you know, those three chords. I also used to play at the Hut, a wooden framed
building on East Boulevard and 116th. The Pin Wheel Club was just down the road. There was also the Mayflower club. We also backed Kim Tolliver at Gleeson's Show Bar and Ken Hawkins put a show on at
the Circle Ballroom with Marvin Gaye. The payment for that show was $75. Otis Redding's last ever show, that was at Leo's Casino. He went by Kim Tolliver's after the show (the show at Leo's Casino had followed a
Cleveland based TV appearance on 'Upbeat', on which he sang a duet with Mitch Ryder, they performed "Knock on Wood") and we were invited to go with him, on his private plane, to Milwaukee. Luckily we
didn't, as it crashed and Otis was killed.
JRS: I never realised that ! ….What can you remember about the Imperial Wonders ?
LR: Avon Wells, he was the brother of one of the guys in the Bell Telefunk group. He was the baby of the family, everybody in his family had deep voices, even his sister. But these guys approached Bob
Davis and he wanted to produce them for this label, Day-Wood. And I don't know if he had a second label, him and this juvenile court judge were involved with it and they recorded most of their acts at Boddies
Recording. But I had gotten to be good friends with Arnie Rosenburg at Agency (Recording) on 24th and Payne, so I suggested if they wanted to get a different and better sound and go to 16 track instead of 8, lets go to Agency Recording. Their track "Zip-A-Dee Do Dah" (A side was "Just A Dream") was recorded and released in 1969. I was paid $300 to produce that.
JRS: How did you hook up with them ?
LR: Bob Davis brought them to me. Incidently, they had a sister group, the Ebonettes. Cynthia Woodward (Cindy of Bobby & Cindy on Shaker Records), Sharon Shanks, Debra Chapman and one other.
JRS: So you had already established a name for yourself ?
LR: Well, I was with the O'Jays so that made me stand out a bit. I was the road manager for the O'Jays, they couldn't talk to the O'Jays much so they talked to me.
JRS: When did you go with and leave the O'Jays ?
LR: 1968 to 1970. "Working On Your Case" was popular in the UK I think, William Powell sang lead on that. Did you know their "I'll Never Forget You" was cut at Motown. They were gonna sign
with Motown but their contract was sold to Imperial.
JRS: The Rotations (the groups members included Sonny Thompson & Bobby Starr {Day ?} and cut the popular -- in the UK -- "I Can't Find Her" released in 1970 on Debrossard)
LR: They always wore blue jump suits and went on to join………….
JRS: Soulsville Productions and Law-ton Records in New York ? Lets try A C Jones & the Atomic Aces ?
LR: I don't know them at all. That's just a name that sounds like one of those groups from back then.
JRS: Leroy Smalley ? ( Leroy cut one of the first releases on Golden World Records out of Detroit, # 107 around 1963).
LR: Leroy, he played left handed guitar. He recorded at Boddies and was in Sam Cooke's back-up band before Golden World.
JRS: Jerry G & Co.
LR: Jerry G, I think they were so young too, I mean you heard about em but they weren't in the working area at the same time I was. I had moved on by the time they received popularity.
JRS: Bobby Dukes ?
LR: Bobby Dukes was a phenomenal person and keyboard player. Played percussion and could sing, write, perform, an excellent dancer. I knew him, I went to school with his older brother, who we just
called Dukes. He was always telling us about his younger brother from Quincy who could sing and dance and play. Just like Bobby Johnson and David Johnson, both bass players and guitar players. I knew them when they
were kids, like 12, 13 years old.
JRS: You were telling me that you lived a couple of doors away from Johnny Moore of the Hornets.
LR: No, Johnny Moore of the Drifters.
JRS: But he started out in the Hornets.
LR: Oh, well see, I didn't know that.
JRS: Well originally, I hadn't realised he had lived in Cleveland.
LR: Oh yea, I lived right next door to him, in big mamma's house.
JRS: The Hornets recorded a couple of things that were released on Way Out around 62.
LR: Yes, Ben Iverson and the Hornets. Lester Johnson was the lead singer on Ben Iverson's "Wedding Day" (a 1962 Way Out 45 by the Hornets – Lester Robertson is listed as the
groups usual lead singer. The group had earlier recorded for Flash and States. Johnny Moore had sung lead on the groups 1953 single for Chicago based State Records. Ben Iverson was, very briefly, lead singer with
Ike Perry & the Lyrics).
JRS: What other acts do you remember ?
LR: The Out of Sights. That was one of the groups I promoted at Saru. They started out recording at Way Out studio's but we ended up takin them to a studio at Payne, I can't even think of
the name of it now. It had a different kind of name (Motion Picture Sound Studio was in this area). They were Paul Woodhall, Henry Steward, Harry Steward, Stan Reeves, Michael Booth and Greg Still, all from
JFK High School.
JRS: Your 45 that came out under the name Volcanic Eruption, was that a group ? (Volcanic Eruption had a Way Out 45, "Red Robin / I've Got Something Going For Me" around 1969)
LR: Well, Yea. I always wanted to have a group in the sixties, we had girls in it. I decided to make it happen. Volcanic Eruption was Jimmy McClain, Robert & Verna Middlebrooks (Verna
& Rob – Way Out artists in their own right) along with myself. I just talked with Verna a couple of weeks ago. She's still teaching school in Cleveland. Verna & Rob were married, but they're divorced
now.
JRS: Who did you engineer and produce for at Way Out ?
LR: Well, I did stuff for Bobby Womack when he would come down there. We did a few things with Edwin (Starr), we did a lot on Bobby Wade, the Sensations, the Boss Singers….
JRS: The Boss Singers were a gospel group
LR: Yea, but they had such a beat and a driving rhythm, they were the best. Randy was the
lead singer, there were four of them, all male (I have James Bullard noted down as the group's lead singer !). Man, they could sing. They were almost like the Staple Singers, they
could go either way (gospel or soul). You would like their rhythm and all.
I think they recorded some that became records too.
JRS: Yes, they had a 45 out on Way Out ("My God On High / So Many Years")
LR: I can't remember the guy who was their manager. I don't know if he sang or not but he also had this little label (DeBrossard ?) and he had something to do with Big Jim. He produced and promoted the Boss Singers.
JRS: The Rotations ? (also on DeBrossard, "I Can't Find Her")
LR: That was one of those groups that just……they were younger than us, they recorded and they mimicked everything the Sahib's did ! I Can't remember their names because in the time they
came up, the Intertains were the top act around…..they (the Intertains) had four members at one time.
JRS: Larry Hancock !
LR: Yea, when he left, there were a couple of other guys that took his place. I think he went to the services….the Intertains kept going after he left.
JRS: The Ambassadors, who were on DeBrossard.
LR: That's that label I was telling you about, DeBrossard ! I don't remember the Ambassadors, no I don't.
JRS: Boddie had a couple of labels.
LR: He sure did, Soul Kitchen (Jackie Russell, "If You Don't Want Me, Let Me Be")
JRS: Luau ?
LR: Yea, everytime he would bring in a different partner, to keep the economics separate, he'd make a label so you knew what everything was. His partners name was Melvin Woods, who was also a part of
Day Wood……that's how that came about, Bob Davis and Melvin Wood.
J R SMITH Oxford, February 01
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